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| Red Faction : Lounge : Pure Faction 2.1 Released |
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NoClanFrank  |
  Posted 1st Nov 2008 4:06am |  |
Post 4908 / 5840
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TrotSkie I am just curious. Why didn't you make (or release) a stand alone auto-download program that can enable the player to change from which site to get the files from.? 
That would really help this game A LOT. 
Cheaters are not really that much of a problem, especially when you can block them with a firewall. 
Your program [PF 2] seems to work well with the auto-download from what I've seen in the server I play in. It is how ever crashing Trumps's game where he has to hit CTRL+ALT+DELETE just to exit out of the game. He likes the program but he stop using it for that reason. 
He went back to Crystal Faction because that one doesn't crash the game and he can play it in window mode. He still has to use a second program to increase his gamma when using it but he found a good one and doesn't mind using it to have a brighter game playing experience.  |
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Modified Nov 1st, 04:08am by NoClanFrank |
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| TrotSkie |
Posted 1st Nov 2008 5:10am |
L4Y Member
Post 111 / 130
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I'll contact trump and get it sorted for him |
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| Hapa Hanu |
Posted 1st Nov 2008 5:25am |
Mac Maniac
L4Y Member
Post 1512 / 1544
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| Quoting Animator | | First of all this. I was never agains PF in any way ! So to make clear about that. |
Wow - you flip-flop more than a sausage in a skillet... |
| I have suffered in real life for the past couple years, now its your turn! |
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Assaultman67  |
Posted 1st Nov 2008 5:41am | |
Post 3538 / 4376
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| Quoting REDFROG | Hm, and why?
(imo it's pretty much worth nothing without anti-cheat protection. I want cheat free games. Not games where I can spectate in) |
Its so those who use mods online will be curious to try it out ...
Once they get hooked to its non-anticheat features ... Boom! ... Trotskie forces a global auto update for PF and causes all the modders out there to suddenly have to make a (tough? dunno ... haven't tried out PF's newest released version or cheated online) choice. (thats why there is no optional update button )
Stop cheating and keep playing with Pure's features or go back to crappy RF and be able to cheat and/or be a victim from security threats ...
Don't get me wrong, i hate cheating and i want PF to have anti cheat features ... but i hate seeing people munipulating other people more  ... and thats the only reason i can think of disabling them for release to only be activated later ...
So im still not going to use Pure ... also since its pretty clear that regular RF is a security risk nowdays ... i probably won't play it either ... id rather let the community shrink a bit than be a pawn in any power struggle 
(of course all of this is just speculation and my opinion, could be right or wrong (ill never know), everyone should make their own decision of what to do  ) |
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Modified Nov 1st, 07:00am by Assaultman67 |
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| TrotSkie |
Posted 1st Nov 2008 7:59am |
L4Y Member
Post 112 / 130
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Thats a silly thing to assume assaultman. Perhaps its disabled because its not finished  ? Power in a computer game community is completely worthless to me. Things I value do not live inside or in front of computers. People seem to love telling long winded speculative stories in this forum. |
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Modified Nov 1st, 08:03am by TrotSkie |
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| Ghostkid |
Posted 1st Nov 2008 12:48pm | |
Invisible Kid
L4Y Member
Post 2068 / 2212
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I was thinking the same as Assaultman actually xD.
Omg. Still no mod support ?  .
I was going to play ISM. But noticed i still don't have a mod option for a dedicated server.
Also it would be cool if there would come an auto download feature for mods! |
Xbox 360 Gamertag: Firefist1
Xfire: Ghostkid1 |
Modified Nov 1st, 12:54pm by Ghostkid |
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| RED-FROG |
Posted 1st Nov 2008 4:32pm | |
L4Y Resident
Post 3905 / 5258
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Ok it's me again..
If RF1.2 clients are able to play in PF2.0 servers. There is no need for them to get PF2.0.
PF2.0 servers have to FORCE the players to use PF2.0. That's the whole idea about handing a new version around the globe, in every game.
I really couldn't care less about Pure when it's not going against the cheaters.
Frank said, "they doesn't matter, you can firewall them".
But how do you firewall or ban cheaters, that you don't even know they are cheating?
And if you are playing in a public server and a cheater appears, but there's no rcon help, what will you do then?
Why do you say you disabled it because it's not finished?
I remember the anti cheating worked well in all other previous beta versions. Why wouldn't it work in a version that you call 2.0. which you wanted to indicate with that Pure2.0 is lightyears ahead of Pure beta 3.
You must tell all the RF servers about the advantages. And then force the players to download it for playing.
And then it works like this: "If they don't want to download it, then they can choose another server"
Not a direct quote but this is what many PF supporters been saying all day long when the old pure versions came out.
And I also remember that the previous Pure versions had no TROJAN or MALWARE warnings at all. |
| ¤ MARS WARS 3! - Red Faction revamped on the unreal engine. Superiority ¤ |
Modified Nov 1st, 04:33pm by RED-FROG |
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| Assaultman67 |
Posted 1st Nov 2008 5:05pm | |
Post 3540 / 4376
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Thats basically it ... if there were anti-cheat features in 1.0 why would you take them all out initially for 2.0 ... i can't make any other sense of that ... its an anti-cheat patch/thingy 
PF to me seems like it was built with good intent ... but its methodology in distributing PF and making it more popular is ... questionable to me to say the least.
Reminds me too much of politics to be "pure" |
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| Morgoth |
Posted 1st Nov 2008 5:18pm |
L4Y Member
Post 243 / 393
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I think is right to say, in general, that TrotSkie don't like or don't want to spend time to write feedback... He probably have is reason why all previous features are not in Pure Faction.
Him in both champ, TrotSkie & community, in our side, we need to be gentle, because we want a motivated TrotSkie to update Pure Faction to full proof version.
But!  TrotSkie, you need to give better feedback 
| Quoting Morgoth |
What happen with theses features?
Player care Gamemode Switch - (DM/CTF) - "without kick players from server"...
Free Cam Spectate |
You are not forced to give a full detail paragraph, but a quick answer to give hint will be nice.
Keep the GoOd jOb & focus on positive
Morgoth |
| Red Faction - Xmod Home Page Mod DB Thanks to visit |
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| NoClanFrank |
Posted 1st Nov 2008 5:46pm | |
Post 4910 / 5840
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| Quoting Assaultman67 | | Stop cheating and keep playing with Pure's features or go back to crappy RF and be able to cheat and/or be a victim from security threats ... |
That statement seems to me that you think that if you aren't using PF that you must be cheating. If that is the way you mean it, then you couldn't be any more wrong.
| Quoting REDFROG | | If RF1.2 clients are able to play in PF2.0 servers. There is no need for them to get PF2.0.[/b] |
Wrong, some players with newer video cards need PF or CF in order to be able to play Red Faction.
| Quoting REDFROG | Frank said, "they doesn't matter, you can firewall them".
But how do you firewall or ban cheaters, that you don't even know they are cheating? |
I mostly play in redfaction.info. We rarely if ever have a problem with players cheating If they are cheating it's not so noticeable that it makes the game no longer fun.
TrotSkie again I ask you. Why not release a programmable version of the auto-download feature. I mean a stand alone version. What prevents a lot of players from ever joining a server is usually that they don't have the levels. The problem I see now with only having one option from where to get the files is NOT a good idea. That basically means if the site goes down, so does the auto-download feature. Lets say Goober or Digital decide one day that they don't want to deal with hassle of uploading maps, then what....PF is dead along with RF?
This is why I am in favor (or favour in case Hapa Hanu is reading this ) or being able to have a custom download location either added to the program or as a second download location option in case the first site goes down.
Either way, thanks for the time and effort you have taken out of your regular life to make this available for those that need it.
If you think that cheating is what is really destroying this game, you might partly be correct. The lack of players having the files is not helping things out either. |
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| NoClanFrank |
Posted 1st Nov 2008 5:50pm | |
Post 4911 / 5840
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| Quoting TrotSkie | | I'll contact trump and get it sorted for him |
Thanks.
There have a few times where he was only a few frags away from wining. He crashed and had to come back and start his frag fest from zero again.
Not that the other players and I didn't mind wining but we had to hear him complain about it how he had the game. |
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| Assaultman67 |
Posted 1st Nov 2008 9:30pm | |
Post 3541 / 4376
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Actually im more concerned about how deep digi's wallet is rather than how stable the server is ... he has to pay for that server ...
But i guess that doesn't really matter as much anymore since PF can adapt to bad circumstances ... (the PF update feature ... well, unless PF's patches come from the same NM server ... then that scenario's failsafe wouldn't really work) ... it would still suck if Trotskie dropped support and nebula mods left ... but i guess its better than a unchangeable PF that gets distributed ...
| Quoting NCF | | Quoting Assaultman67 |
Stop cheating and keep playing with Pure's features or go back to crappy RF and be able to cheat and/or be a victim from security threats ... |
That statement seems to me that you think that if you aren't using PF that you must be cheating. If that is the way you mean it, then you couldn't be any more wrong. |
You're right, a different scenario applies to the people who don't cheat ...
Use regular RF with its vulnerabilities, or trotskie's PF should be like with less vulnerabilities and advantages ...
Has it occurred to anybody else that a spectate mode for PF might cause an unfair advantage over those who use regular RF? ...
Spectate could be used pretty much delayed wallhacking (for example, you can see where people are camping so its easier to avoid or confront them)
Or what about the 8.5ms mouse lag reduction? ... isn't that a clear advantage in gameplay for PF users?
... That stuff is not an actual patch/anti-cheat for RF (infact these examples i just listed are actually unfair advantages over everyone who doesn't use PF), its just icing on an unplesantly tasting cake for the modders of RF so they will be more likely to swallow it ... and the people who don't mod will have to swallow it too just to have the same abilities PF allows ...
Thats stepping over the line if you ask me ... you are now messing with the actual gameplay that doesn't have to do with cheating ... this isn't a neutrally made anti-cheat for RF anymore ... it has become Trotskie's idea of what RF should be like ... and people either have to accept it, or deal with having all the disadvantages ...
yet its still being advertised as a anti-cheat |
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Modified Nov 1st, 09:33pm by Assaultman67 |
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| Assaultman67 |
Posted 2nd Nov 2008 12:30am | |
Post 3542 / 4376
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| Quoting nay | I don't know what sites you've been visiting that need a 'deep' sum of money to host a few gigs worth of files for a dead game.
Oh wait. |
No need to make a jab at anyone else ... im in this discussion ... im your target  ...
To me if you have a good arguement you don't need to back it with an insult ... the insult itself will detract from the effectiveness of the arguement ...
| Quoting nay | | Abusing the spectator in this manner is extremely unlikely to hold any real advantage. Plus, I'm not positive but it shouldn't allow you to spec unless you're dead. Feel free to get someone to spectate and call people out for you in a public server if you want, it won't be worthwhile in matches due to it not allowing a player to spectate when force spawn is enabled. |
Im fairly sure i could use it without anyone's help to pick off campers ... Im sure eventually they would stop camping because of the spectate mode ... but thats altering the overall gameplay
| Quoting nay | | It's not a clear advantage, since the feeling of the mouse is overall what will impact a person's play - this is subjective. Alot of people have complained about direct input's introduction into the new PF and so in a few updates it will be optional. |
With that logic there is not a clear advantage between people with different frames per second rates ... or people with different pings ...
smoother response rates = better gaming if you ask me ...
You could go the opposite way with this arguement as well ... if that 8.5ms trim wasn't significant as you say, why did trotskie bother to code it?
| Quoting nay | | This isn't a bad thing really. Modders should be forced to swallow all sorts of things, and you should be hired to instruct them proper technique. As for the average player, PF is simply better than 1.2 and is clearly (if you don't have a twisted viewpoint) the choice version of the game to play on. |
I disagree in this case, im not arguing that "PF sux" or "It'z teh virus" ... im arguing that the people behind PF are way too pushy and are using shady methods to promote something that should sell itself ...
Spamming forums with PF beta news ...
Telling new people or people with problems to fix their problems with PF even though it may not be something they require or there are alternate methods ...
Using features to entise people to make the switch to the anti-cheat ... that most likely will cause advantages over non-PF users
Don't forget either that the last time PF came out sweeper was crashing normal servers with normal non-modding people in them to get them to move to PF (I really really hope that was something that was done without suggestion or approval ... but i can't ignore how convienient that (coincedence?) was for PF ...)
You yourself just suggested forcing PF upon people ...
| Quoting nay | | This is an extremely radical viewpoint and distortion based not on reality. In essence you're scraping a barrel for dirt when it's empty. Thankfully, I'm here to give you splinters. |
Yea well, i knew someone would reply to what i said ... im not an idiot ... even if it wasn't you, someone would
Although I dunno how to respond to make it clearer ... if you create an anti-cheat, it should be that and only that ... otherwise its just someone else's version of a game ...
The difference is an anti-cheat blocks people from modifying a game ... trotskie is adding features and content to the game ... so its no longer an anti-cheat to me ...
| Quoting nay | | That's because it is. |
An anti-cheat doesn't add features to a game other than what is nessesary to prevent people from cheating ... when have you seen modders using the "no auto download", the "no spectate available" exploit? or the "no Server Statistics" exploit
If you want you could probably get away with calling it an updated version of RF ... but anti-cheat just doesn't fit the term for PF anymore ... |
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| Morgoth |
Posted 2nd Nov 2008 4:11am |
L4Y Member
Post 244 / 393
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| Quoting nay |
TrotSkie gives feedback frequently on NM, which is PF's home forum. |
It always was the case, even before NM was born... No mater what main forum you have, TrotSkie did an clean official post on this site and I think is a GoOd attitude to follow the topic he create to give a better feedback for the community. It can only help...
| Quoting Assaultman67 |
Spectate ...you can see where people are camping so its easier to avoid or confront them |
About Free Cam Spectate mode, I first thought TrotSkie removed it for this reason and limit First Person Cam to only teammate, which is not. If FPS Cam stay like this, I hope Free Cam will comeback to do nice video
| Quoting Assaultman67 |
...PF might cause an unfair advantage over those who use regular RF? |
The fact that regular client can join now, I agree, but PF server, as root of this application, are supposed to let enter only PF client, which TrotSkie will probably do when implement the Anti-Cheat by update. In this condition, everyone will be PF client. Maybe the new Anti-Cheat only need it on server, TrotSkie may reply on this?
Morgoth |
| Red Faction - Xmod Home Page Mod DB Thanks to visit |
Modified Nov 2nd, 04:16am by Morgoth |
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| Johnny_Suave |
Posted 2nd Nov 2008 6:24am |
L4Y Member
Post 1059 / 1154
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| Quoting Trotskie | | I don't think you mean skip reload - i think you mean delay reload. Currently you always have to reload the gun, but you can change away and reload it later. |
EPIC WIN.
| Quoting Trotskie | | Changing away from empty guns will be a serverside option. I'd appreciate it if people email me bugs they find rather than posting on forums, as I don't read forums often. |
Arghhhh...... that kinda sucks cuz I know a lot of people think that's "glitching" so hopefully there will be a good variety of servers allowing the empty gun dump. |
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