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| Levels-4-You : Lounge : Intelligent Design |
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| SKA-Diesel |
  Posted 27th May 2005 2:43pm |
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I just came across this article through one of the banners on levels4you.
Being a Christian its a very interesting read. Im sure I mentioned some of this stuff in our last "religious" thread, but this guy knows how to explain it more clearly.
Have a read and see what you think
Interlligent Design |
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Modified May 27th, 04:14pm by SKA-Diesel |
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| DaveMan_CI |
Posted 27th May 2005 3:08pm |
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Yeah, had a read. Intresting stuff man |
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| Molodiets |
Posted 27th May 2005 3:31pm |
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Interresting indeed.
A discussion about scientific faith. Please, let's make it a religious debate.
I expect it to swell quite quickly then. 
So, SKA-Diesel, what the link with religion?
The problem of a step by step (or in big leaps) evolution IS actually discussed in scientific communities. |
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| ExoStatic |
Posted 27th May 2005 3:38pm |
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This is, indeed, a very interesting article. My mind wasn't able to absorb all the information, but I got the general gist of it.
The theory of evolution is a very odd thing indeed. Nobody has any direct proof that we evolved from, well monkeys. Of course, scientists have inspected the DNA patterns of Humand and Primates and they are very similar.
Which arises the question, other animals. Did they evolve from each other? For example, I've heard that birds evolved from dinosaurs, but I do not know how. Dinosaurs were reptiles with scaly skin and very different bone structures. Birds are.. well, birds. They are feathery and warm blooded.. This is a very interesting topic, evolution.
Let's hear your views..
[EDIT = I put scient1ts lol.. |
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Modified May 27th, 03:45pm by ExoStatic |
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| SKA-Diesel |
Posted 27th May 2005 3:53pm |
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| Quoting molodiets | | So, SKA-Diesel, what the link with religion? |
Well what the article is showing is that evolution does not explain the complexities of cells and the "machines" working within them.
Evolution says that things develop over time, but the bacterial flagellum has distinct "components" which could not develop, but like a car engine would have to be designed to work together.
If you take evolution out of the question, then your left with the question: How did we get here? If we didnt develop over a long period of time, then something or someone must have put us here.
Which in turn brings us to the whole "Is there a God" debate.
Bacterial Flagellum: one of the many machines working within every cell of your body.
How could components evolve? |
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Modified May 27th, 04:08pm by SKA-Diesel |
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| ExoStatic |
Posted 27th May 2005 4:07pm |
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Indeed, components cannot evolve, they can only be improved, upgraded, so to speak.
The thing is.. It's a wonder how it all works.. how the human body "evolved" to be so, well.. "perfect".
Sometimes, I find myself believing the religious Christian story of creation, but seeing as I've been brought up in the modern scientific world it seems very very rediculous. This may be insulting to some of the more religious users on this site, and I apologize.
However, the Big Bang also seems very controversial. This is going slightly off-topic, but the Big Bang is something very closely linked to evolution. I have been told a couple of versions. One is where two rocks collided in space and it just blew up and created stuff.. and another is a single particle exploded, and all the matter that is now the universe was thrown out. When I think of this, I think of the word compression.
The particle was merely the WHOLE UNIVERSE squashed into one tiny little weeny lil particle.
Now, evolution is a very very difficult topic to get your head around, and nobody will ever know precisely what happens inside the bodies of animals, and how cells work, but we can always have ideas.
[Man, I'm typing like a scientist. I'm only 13  ] |
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| SKA-Diesel |
Posted 27th May 2005 4:11pm |
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| Quoting Exo | Indeed, components cannot evolve, they can only be improved, upgraded, so to speak.
The thing is.. It's a wonder how it all works.. how the human body "evolved" to be so, well.. "perfect". |
Dude your contradicting yourself there...
You cant say "components cant evolve" and then say "how the human body "evolved" " |
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| ExoStatic |
Posted 27th May 2005 4:15pm |
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The human body isn't a component.. it's a living organism. |
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| SKA-Diesel |
Posted 27th May 2005 4:22pm |
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Made up of millions of componenet and biological machines.  |
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| Molodiets |
Posted 27th May 2005 4:53pm |
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Ancient greek philosophers have pointed out the difficulty to understand any change, any evolution.
When something changes, it's no longer the thing it was. There is a logical problem here. How can you say something has evolved. It's just another thing. You say something has evolved only when you understand why and how it did and because your language allows you to assimilate what it was and what it is.   |
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| ExoStatic |
Posted 27th May 2005 5:00pm |
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Me and SKA just had an interesting talk on MSN about this topic.
He explained to me how he thinks we were designed by God/Aliens.. which is fine for him, as he believes in God.
But as for me, I believe in neither God nor Aliens, so where does that leave other non-believers? |
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| SKA-Diesel |
Posted 27th May 2005 5:04pm |
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| Quoting molodiets | | You say something has evolved only when you understand why and how it did and because your language allows you to assimilate what it was and what it is. |
I see what your saying man, but it doesnt change the fact that these machines are made of individual components... which evolution cannot explain.
example.... OK you've got your organism, now how is it going to develop into seperate components without an "intelligent design" behind the final out come.
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Modified May 27th, 05:05pm by SKA-Diesel |
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| Molodiets |
Posted 27th May 2005 5:05pm |
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| Quoting ExoStatic |
But as for me, I believe in neither God nor Aliens, so where does that leave other non-believers? |
That's indeed the occassion for non-believers to doubt of the innexistance of god, but the same thing could be said of anything we don't understand. In front of a mystery, the believer will say it's the proof of the existance of a god and the non-believer will answer:  . |
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| ExoStatic |
Posted 27th May 2005 5:08pm |
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Indeed, molo. SKA, I see what you mean. Of course, the non-believers could say that it was just all luck, and pish the idea of God away, but that would be being shallow minded. I truly want to get to the bottom of this.. |
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| Molodiets |
Posted 27th May 2005 5:13pm |
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I read that scientists who were asked about it answered that the very notion of evolution is a logical nonsense because it implies that you already know why and how it happened.
But i admit i'm not quite satisfied with the answer. |
| spoilsport |
Modified May 27th, 05:21pm by Molodiets |
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| ExoStatic |
Posted 27th May 2005 5:22pm |
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Not quite satisfied? I'm FAR from satisfied with this. This is gonna need a few more pages of discussion before I think i'll be even any where near satisfied. |
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