|
|
| Levels-4-You : Lounge : Intelligent Design |
[Forum Rules] |
| SKA-Diesel |
  Posted 30th May 2005 5:30pm |
L4Y Member
Post 0 / 719
 |
OK crazmonkey your getting really confused.
Nobody is attacking science. I did not say scienece is a religion... I said that to some people evolution has become their religion.
Please think before you post.
| Quoting Lace | | It takes faith to believe in God, and it takes faith to believe in Darwin. Basically, it is just a matter about who or what you prefer to believe, since none of it can actually be proven. |
Spot on 
One more thing. The bible contains many scientific truths. To see what I mean click HERE
So science and religion can mix  |
|
|
| Crazmonkey |
Posted 30th May 2005 9:43pm |
L4Y Member
Post 0 / 67
 |
1. belief in, devotion to, or trust in somebody or something, especially without logical proof
thats the thing science follows logical ideas, based on observations.
| Quote | I said that to some people evolution has become their religion.
|
I havent read that anywhere at all, you came across as saying.....well first it was saying that there has to be intelligence behind the elements  .
Basically all it comes to is have gotten to hot headed in this subject as I always do, but I just get pissed of when people try and answer everything with the one answer GOD, life is not that simple and in my mind we have more than enough proof that God does not exist, but when that info gets released Religious people just come up with another excuse to try and get around the problem which has just been solved by asking questons rather than saying that one almighty being done it which we have less proof of than anything out in space, and GOD is supposed to be right above us when space is so vast and wide. Also nothing about space or any of our ancesors such as neanderthals or any other human ancestor let alone dinosaurs has been mentioned in the bible or any other religious text.
I know i cant and will not change the minds of millions of people out there but it saddens me that a being with as high intelligence as us still has to cling on to the little bed time stories that got us through our childhood (this is in metaphorical talk, as in the early years of humanity, it was the only way to keep sane). But now we are growing up and we shouldnt need such stories, and this is not an exageration, all the bible is a book of text, at least the rest of the answers we have come up with so far have evidence, such as bones, even photographs, but no i have never even seen any photographic evidence apart from a text book the prooves that any suppernatural beings are real |
| |
Modified May 30th, 09:49pm by Crazmonkey |
|
| SKA-Diesel |
Posted 30th May 2005 10:22pm |
L4Y Member
Post 0 / 719
|
| Quoting crazmonkey | | in my mind we have more than enough proof that God does not exist, but when that info gets released Religious people just come up with another excuse |
Why don't you enlighten us then... 
| Quoting crazmonkey | | Also nothing about space or any of our ancesors such as neanderthals or any other human ancestor let alone dinosaurs has been mentioned in the bible or any other religious text. |
According to the Bible we didnt evolve, hence why there is no mention of neanderthals in the Bible. Again your not thinking before typing.
Secondly Ive shared one reference to dinosaurs in the Bible, if you want more I will post them. They are not called dinosaurs in the Bible, as this term was invented in the 17th or 18th century, which is why the word dinosaur does not appear in the Bible.
Oh and by the way if we did evolve from apes, why has there NEVER been any links found? If we did evolve from apes (or anything) then surely we would be finding links all the time.. as there would be thousands or even millions of links.
| Quoting crazmonkey | | thats the thing science follows logical ideas, based on observations. |
Yeah, unfortunately evolution is not observable.... so you have devotion to evolution without logical proof.
OK Im not going to reply to you anymore, as you dont seem to read whats already been said.
In my next post I'll share some evidence for a young Earth, which is of course a key thing to the Bible's account of creation being true. |
| |
Modified May 30th, 10:23pm by SKA-Diesel |
|
| ElySioN |
Posted 30th May 2005 11:39pm |
L4Y Member
Post 0 / 141
 |
\\\"Intelligent Design means an intelligent designer..\\\"
Makes sense to me. Everything has a purpose or a reason to why things happen.
I\'m a believe in God, but I\'m open to what other\'s have to say. |
| "The tragedy of life is not that it ends so soon, but that we wait so long to begin it..." |
|
|
| GTA |
Posted 31st May 2005 12:38am |
L4Y Member
Post 0 / 162
 |
there is no way to disprove the existance of an all powerfull god. |
|
|
| Crazmonkey |
Posted 31st May 2005 1:04am |
L4Y Member
Post 0 / 67
|
| Quote | | According to the Bible we didnt evolve, hence why there is no mention of neanderthals in the Bible. Again your not thinking before typing |
i am but you ignore it all, please can you find a living human being with the atributes the skelletons have that have been dug out of the ground, there have been many, all of different stature, head and jaw size and structual build....there are no living humans in the recent past that have obtained any of those traits, apart from one or two individual maybe.....and even though YOU say carbon dating is wrong, it has shown these bones to be older than recent times
| Quote | | Oh and by the way if we did evolve from apes, why has there NEVER been any links found? If we did evolve from apes (or anything) then surely we would be finding links all the time.. as there would be thousands or even millions of links. |
there are clear links if you use the science way of thinking, not dismis what is happening around the world. If you knew how scientists describe evolution, as slowly and developing a new trait, and that process happening overe and over again for millions and billions of years, then yes that is proof. And it is better than expecting me to beleive that we were dumped here out of thin air
| Quote | | Yeah, unfortunately evolution is not observable.... so you have devotion to evolution without logical proof. |
It is observable, we are working backwards and finding evidence as stated above like bones and other artifects such as tools for hunting etc. You cant didmis these findings, there are going to be more and more as time grows on and you can keep on ignoring the fact that there are things, many things that you bible does not explain.
Also how could God create someone as evil as me, putting him down and not beleiving in him, its such a sin yet people like me are growing more and more as we use our own brains instead of listening to a book. Its like me telling someone i have just met over the net and never seen or gotten to know to follow me blindly
Research any of the names on there and you can see the different traits they have and what the have been dated back with using carbon dating. Even if you dont like it there IS proof out there puting evolution in the lead
| Quote | | Makes sense to me. Everything has a purpose or a reason to why things happen. |
Also I think that is another misconception made up by the human race, WHY, why is there a reason for everything? I think that there isnt, just because we humans can think means that we are the rulers of everything, and I think that we have to understand that in the giant cosmos we are insignificant and in rewallity mean nothing...yes we value our own lives but that is pure survival/human gread/and animal instincts coming into play
| Quote | | OK Im not going to reply to you anymore, as you dont seem to read whats already been said. |
please show evidence that I am not reading, yes I repeat my self as do you, to try and proove a different point, like it or not we are the same but with a different view
| Quote | Interresting indeed.
A discussion about scientific faith. Please, let's make it a religious debate.
I expect it to swell quite quickly then.
|
and dont complain it was asked for, not by you but yeah, still asked for 
*edit*
Also if you want recent info on the dicoveries of dinosaurs, look for
"New Scientist" issue 21 May 2005,
its cover story is on dinosaurs and their discoveries, its 16 pages so i dont feel like quoting, becaue i cant just do a bit because there is many of things i would like to quote from it |
| |
Modified May 31st, 05:30am by Crazmonkey |
|
| SKA-Diesel |
Posted 31st May 2005 7:07pm |
L4Y Member
Post 0 / 719
|
OK I read your last post, but I feel we're going backwards here, so Ive quoted a publication which helps illustrate the weakness of the Evolution Theory.
BTW- I came up with this idea when I was about 12.. it really doesnt take a genuis to work it out.
LINK to Biblelife.org
| Quote | The evolutionist will claim that the presence of many individual species proves evolution.
This shallow statement is devoid of reason, logic and scientific proof.
Evolutionists line up pictures of similar looking species and claim they evolved one to another.
Humans are a great example. There are hundreds of species of extinct monkeys and apes.
Petrified skulls and bones exist from these creatures.
Evolutionists line up the most promising choices to present a gradual progression from monkey to modern man.
They simply fill in the big gaps with make-believe creatures to fit the picture.
This procedure can be done with humans only because there are many extinct monkey and ape species.
They never do this with giraffes and elephants.
These pictures are placed in all evolutionists' text books to teach kids this nonsense.
The picture is simply a grouping of individual species that does not prove evolution.
The presence of individual species actually proves they were not developed by an evolutionary process.
If evolution were true all plants, animals and insects would be in a continual state of change.
No two creatures would be identical because there would not be separate species.
There would be a continual blend of characteristics without a clear definition among the species.
Everything would be changing and every animal, insect and plant would be different.
All species are locked solid within their DNA code.
Evolution is in trouble.
The growth of biological knowledge is producing scientific facts that contradict the evolutionary theory
not confirm it, a fact that famous Prof. Steven Jay Gould of Harvard has described as "the trade secret of paleontology."
The fossil record simply does not support the evolutionary theory that there once existed a series of successive forms leading to the present day organism.
The theory states that infinitesimal changes within each generation evolve into a new species, but the scientific fact remains that they don't.
Fossils prove the sudden emergence of a new species out of nowhere, complete with characteristics unknown in any other species.
The fossil record has no intermediate or transitional forms. This is popularly known as the "missing link" problem, and it exists in all species.
The missing link problem is getting worse not better with the discovery of more fossils. The missing links are not being discovered, which proves they never existed.
Darwin assumed transitional forms would be discovered in the fossil record over time, but that has not been the case.
The fossil record, or lack thereof, is a major embarrassment to evolutionists. The fossil record is a serious rebuke of the theory of evolution.
New species literally explode onto the scene out of nowhere. New fossil discoveries continue to prove evolution to be wrong. |
|
|
|
| ElySioN |
Posted 31st May 2005 9:09pm |
L4Y Member
Post 0 / 141
|
| Quoting Crazmonkey |
Also how could God create someone as evil as me, putting him down and not beleiving in him, its such a sin yet people like me are growing more and more as we use our own brains instead of listening to a book. Its like me telling someone i have just met over the net and never seen or gotten to know to follow me blindly |
Just to touch upon this small passage, God gave us free will, so we have the choice to be good or evil. He doesn't create anyone to be evil.
"Truly, if there is evil in the world it lies in the heart of mankind." - Edward D. Morrison.
Touching upon listening to what a book says, what about all other books including those of evolution? Should I use my brain instead of listening to them too ? We're all influenced to believe what we want. Fact of the matter is, is that you yourself could not have thought of evolution or God without there being some other link to it. |
| "The tragedy of life is not that it ends so soon, but that we wait so long to begin it..." |
Modified May 31st, 09:09pm by ElySioN |
|
| Crazmonkey |
Posted 31st May 2005 10:58pm |
L4Y Member
Post 0 / 67
|
I’m not saying that that is un-thought out but your reason in not believing in evolution is because it is made up correct me if I am wrong. So instead you believe in something else, which is even more un believable.
And please explain why god made so many different types of monkeys and other animals, if we did not evolve then why are there so many different variations of one creature, surely he did not make many variety of animals(why would you?), a monkey is a monkey right......and please explain cross breading, what is that, say one dog breads with another bread of dog, then you get a cross of dogs.....and there are now species of dogs that are considered a normal breed which have come from cross breading, this is a small form of evolution.....And think if this process carried od for millions of years, after a while they would be unrecognisable from the first breeds of dogs
Also who made all the stars and other planets out there? Or don’t they really exist? 
And there will be intermediate steps, its just not noticeable until it reaches a certain difference. So many bones ect. will seem the same but they will have slight differences, and also the reason they change over time is because of the changing environments as well, so you will never find them in the same areas.
And in my opinion the missing link between a book and a god compared to some missing links between different bones is much larger.
Also the bones found don’t relate to monkeys anymore, they relate more to human stance, size, cranium and jaw size, and also the tools found are made to fit human type hands. So these are not monkey bones, they are primitive humans, and there is nothing mentioned of other human types in the bible as far as I know
|
|
|
| SKA-Diesel |
Posted 31st May 2005 11:31pm |
L4Y Member
Post 0 / 719
|
| Quoting crazmonkey | | And in my opinion the missing link between a book and a god compared to some missing links between different bones is much larger. |
LMAO
Did you read what I posted.
SOME.. some....  Thats a good one. The whole point of the fossil recored is that it shows DISTINCT speices.. not slight variations. Which means that all the MILLIONS and MILLIONS and MILLIONS of missing links between each species are just that MISSING
The quicker you come to understand this FACT the quicker you will realise that evolution is not a clever idea, or in fact true.
| Quoting crazmonkey | | say one dog breads with another bread of dog, then you get a cross of dogs.....and there are now species of dogs that are considered a normal breed which have come from cross breading, this is a small form of evolution |
No its not.. this is simply inter breeding.. there is no change in the DNA... which means ultimately you still have a dog.. but it has bigger teeth, different coat etc, but it has not become a ZEBRA....or something else
Clearly you dont have a full understanding of evolution. I have a zoologist friend, who does not believe in God, but would back me up on everything Ive presented to you. She knows that evolution is a theory, it is NOT observable, and there is NO evidence for it.
And btw, she is about to start a Phd, so I think she knows what shes talking about
| Quoting crazmonkey | | Also who made all the stars and other planets out there? Or don’t they really exist? |
Well Im sure if God created the Earth, and all life, I dont think a bunch of gas balls would be too much trouble
But seriously, yeah, I believe God created the entire universe.
| Quoting crazmonkey | | Also the bones found don’t relate to monkeys anymore, they relate more to human stance, size, cranium and jaw size, and also the tools found are made to fit human type hands. So these are not monkey bones, they are primitive humans, and there is nothing mentioned of other human types in the bible as far as I know |
What bones are you talking about? You mean one of those fake creatures Evolutionists invent from ONE fragment of bone? LOL
Sorry friend you and the rest of the world have been lied to your whole life. But because many people dont want to believe in God they would rather believe that everything they see around them all came about by pure chance... |
|
|
| ElySioN |
Posted 1st Jun 2005 12:35am |
L4Y Member
Post 0 / 141
|
I believe in what I wish to believe, as you believe what you wish to believe. Again it\'s all choice.
| Quoting crazmonkey | | So instead you believe in something else, which is even more un believable. |
I could say likewise.
I do believe there is some kind of evolution, and that evolution expands far from just the physical characteristics of Humans but also socially, technologically, etc. Nevertheless, I believe that God exists for reasons both stated in the bible and simply from what I think. |
| "The tragedy of life is not that it ends so soon, but that we wait so long to begin it..." |
|
|
| Molodiets |
Posted 1st Jun 2005 1:20am |
L4Y Member
Post 0 / 2687
 |
| Quoting SKA-Diesel |
SOME.. some.... Thats a good one. The whole point of the fossil recored is that it shows DISTINCT speices.. not slight variations. Which means that all the MILLIONS and MILLIONS and MILLIONS of missing links between each species are just that MISSING |
Yes but there is not the slightest clue that Mankind could have been created by a god except a few contradictory books that were written far after the first man came to life.
| Quoting SKA-Diesel |
The quicker you come to understand this FACT the quicker you will realise that evolution is not a clever idea, or in fact true.
|
Beware. Don't mix up evolution and darwinism. What is questioned in the article you provided is more darwinism than evolution. And evolution isn't uncompatible with the idea of a god controling those evolution. We are certainly genetically closer to monkeys than from insects and therefore there must be some kind of evolution. That scientist don't understand how several cells have been able to evolve independantly from each other whereas they must fit to each other to survive. It's the natural selection that is questionned.
| Quoting SKA-Diesel | No its not.. this is simply inter breeding.. there is no change in the DNA... which means ultimately you still have a dog.. but it has bigger teeth, different coat etc, but it has not become a ZEBRA....or something else
Clearly you dont have a full understanding of evolution. I have a zoologist friend, who does not believe in God, but would back me up on everything |
I don't think it's that clear. The main difference between species is that they din't have the same amount of chromosomes in each cells. But in each procreation there is a change in DNA. That's why a blond haired woman and and a brown haired man can give birth to a red haired child. They have several variations of the same human genes.
Why people wouldn't want to believe in god. It's more relieving to think there is something after death. Maybe people got a grudge against the years of ignorance and middle aged kind of life, religions have imprisonned us in, by opposing to sciences.
|
|
|
| Crazmonkey |
Posted 1st Jun 2005 2:41am |
L4Y Member
Post 0 / 67
|
| Quote | | there is no change in the DNA. |
all humans have different dna, there are no two with exactly the same dna.
| Quote | | What bones are you talking about? You mean one of those fake creatures Evolutionists invent from ONE fragment of bone? LOL |
they have skulls, which show great differences, and if you think people would make it up for a kick then maybe the world is more screwd up than i thought, we may as well be in the matrix if we think like that
But I think overall I have said enough, I have thought about it and wised (sp) up, as I said earlier I cant change peoples opinions, so I will only post back if you post something I really disagree with.
SKA there was nothing personal in it, you just took the stand, like I did, and don’t get me wrong I actually enjoy arguing about this stuff, I makes me think more than usual.
Even though I don’t believe in science as a belief, I will use it in this context and say "we both have different beliefs, and there’s nothing that can change that"
I think I have typed enough for people to get the gist of my ideas and I will let the public believe what they want, and they can decide by themselves and if that happens to be with the help of my opinion so be it, so peace out 
*edit* lol had to say one more thing, about evolution being a theory, every thing basically is a theory, not much can really be proven as "fact", but when it gets to a certain level of repitition, such as the sun rising every day, we tend to take it as a fact rather than a theory. It all depend on how you view life and would rather be debating that since it is not fully proven (which in my mind nothing can be) it is a theory
|
| |
Modified Jun 1st, 02:52am by Crazmonkey |
|
| SKA-Diesel |
Posted 1st Jun 2005 10:27am |
L4Y Member
Post 0 / 719
|
| Quoting molodiets | | Yes but there is not the slightest clue that Mankind could have been created by a god |
Apart from the fact that we exist, and if we didnt come about by chance then someone or something created us.
| Quoting molodiets | | And evolution isn't uncompatible with the idea of a god controling those evolution. |
I would have to disagree with that. Evolution would take billions of years, but the Bible says that God created the heavens (space) and the Earth in 6 days. An all powerful god would not need to evolve its designs, but simply create them.
| Quoting molodiets | | Don't mix up evolution and darwinism |
Do explain the difference.
| Quoting molodiets | | But in each procreation there is a change in DNA |
Yeah.. I was tired when I wrote that, what I meant was that theres no mutation. Like if a dog was to breed with a hippo that would cause serious mutation or they just wouldnt be compatible. So dogs/wolves/dingos DNA is still "dog" DNA, but with changes
not mutations.
| Quoting molodiets | Maybe people got a grudge against the years of ignorance and middle aged kind of life, religions have
imprisonned us in, by opposing to sciences. |
How has religion "imprisioned" anyone? I would take the opposite view and say that faith makes us free. The Bible says that sin is bondage. And there is no Christian in the world who opposes science, thats a unfounded rediculous statement.
| Quoting crazmonkey | they have skulls, which show great differences, and if you think people would make it up for a kick
then maybe the world is more screwd up than i thought, we may as well be in the matrix if we think like that |
Well it does seem strange that whenever they find a small bone fragment that someone will say "Yeah, this is homo-erectus -
and this is what it looked like"
| Quoting crazmonkey | SKA there was nothing personal in it, you just took the stand, like I did, and don’t get me wrong I
actually enjoy arguing about this stuff, I makes me think more than usual. |
Me too man, I always come back from work looking forward to seeing what you posted. Its been an interesting thread.
I'll try and post something controversial for you to debate against |
|
|
| Crazmonkey |
Posted 1st Jun 2005 9:38pm |
L4Y Member
Post 0 / 67
|
lol I to looked at this topic for changes |
|
|
Page 4
Multiple Page Topic : 1 2 3 4 5 |
    |
|
|
|
